Lou Mongello:  Some of us have either had or know of the dream of starting out at a company and moving on and up the ladder to eventually achieving something special on a completely different level.  Well, my next special guest did just that while working for the Walt Disney Company.  He is someone who has truly lived the dream by taking on a summer job as a ticket taker in Disneyland to eventually working for the company for 38 years in a number of different roles, including many at Walt Disney World.  Those accomplishments led to him receiving Disney’s highest honor:  the naming of him as a Disney Legend.  So I’m pleased to welcome Bill “Sully” Sullivan to the WDW Radio Show.

Bill “Sully” Sullivan:  Hello!  And thank you for that beautiful introduction!

LM:  Well, thank you for coming on and taking a few minutes to chat with me today. 

Sully:  My pleasure.

LM:  Like I said during your introduction, you really lived the dream of starting out as a young man who took on a summer job to somebody with his own window on Main Street!  (Sully laughs.)  Tell us how you started with the company.

Sully:  Well, it was interesting because I was working in Anaheim, California in the aircraft industry at the . . . I can’t remember the name of the place now . . . but the guy that interviewed me at Disneyland, Chuck Whalen, had just left there the weekend before.  And so they hired me.  And it gave the Wardrobe Mistress a little bit of a problem because I’m only 5-foot-eight and I had a thirty-four inch waist, and I didn’t fit the pattern that was turned out, but thank God for Lou, she took care of me and she always adjusted my pants and stuff like that, but it was interesting because I got to start at the Jungle Cruise.  And, yeah, the Jungle Cruise are all, indeed, guys.  And you had to be somewhat of an extrovert, and a nut, to work on the Jungle Cruise because we took three trips an hour, or three trips and then take one off – the trips lasted 7 minutes at that time – and so we’d get a quick break and then back on the boats!  It was fun because we never knew what was going to happen and we had the opportunity to help build the place.  Like, they gave us . . . when we started, we didn’t have much of a script, so the guys all got together and kinda wrote our own script.  Then they brought in a professional and he tried to change it all and we stayed with our own scripts because we liked them better.  But you had to be somewhat of a rogue to be there, too.

But, we had some real characters that worked on the Jungle Cruise; we had a gentleman that had spent 15 years in Marrakesh working in the oil fields; we had a gentleman, Don Ware, who was the first one to grow a beard, and he came in one morning and he had chameleons tied around his neck on a little wire.  And we had Tex, who was just a jockey:  a normal trip was seven minutes, and his trips would last four minutes.  Just stuff like that.  And there was a bunch of nuts working there, really.

LM:  And this was very early on in the opening of Disney.  As the story goes, from what I understand, you basically on Sunday night watched the opening ceremonies for Disneyland.  Less than a week later, you go down and apply for a job. 

Sully:  Disneyland opened on the 17th.  I went and worked there on the 27th.  I spent two and a half years in the Jungle, as a Jungle Bunny and then I had the opportunity to move around the park and work a lot of the different attractions.  Then I was promoted to what we used to refer to as a Yo-Yo Supervisor; we’d be promoted and go on salary in the peak periods because we couldn’t afford to keep me up year round, and there was about half a dozen of us like that.  Today we’d be a Supervisor wearing a suit and tie and tomorrow we’d be back in costume!  And we did that for a couple years, and finally, in ’59, when we did the re-dedication and opened the Matterhorn and the Subs and the Monorail, I was promoted on a permanent basis on Main Street as an Assistant Supervisor. 

Fortunately, I was in the right place at the right time.  I guess I had the personality and the drive and the initiative to get promoted up, up and away.  In the meantime, going up, I got picked to go and do a couple of premiers up in Hollywood and crowd control and working with the press.  We got to tour John Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy and a lot of the dignitaries Walt would come down and host.  Unfortunately, we didn’t get to see our Russian friend, but that’s alright – Khrushchev. 

We got picked for Squaw Valley, there were three of us that went up to Squaw Valley and worked up there for six weeks in security of the valley, because they forgot to hire any security people, so we had to put together a team.  And we did that.

LM:  And that was for the Winter Olympics?

Sully:  The 1960 Winter Olympics in Squaw Valley, up in Northern California.  Great time, great time.  Learned a lot; met some great people.  It’s where we met Willy Schaeffler, when we were talking about doing the program up in the mountains that Walt wanted to build, but the Sierra Club shot us down and we couldn’t do that.  So we went on from there. 

But, then we got to go back to the World’s Fair; spent a year back there.  I’d never been east of the Mississippi, and I got a phone call up from my boss one day and he said, “Sully!  Sell your house, both your cars, and be ready to go in 30 days.”  I says, “Where am I going?”  He says, “You’re going back to the World’s Fair.  And you’re going to be an Assistant Manager at the four Disney World’s Fair Shows back there.”  So we went back, with my family; my kids were clean for nine months because we lived in an apartment; my oldest daughter started kindergarten in PS99 in New York, in Queens.  And that was a great experience.  Again, we met some great people, made some good friends, and learned a lot.

LM:  I can only imagine, like you said, about the experience that you had, not only working at the parks, but being able to go outside the parks to things like the Olympics and to the World’s Fair that obviously would have long lasting effects on the Theme Parks worldwide because of what Walt put there. 

Speaking of Walt, how closely, if at all, did you work with Walt?   What was it like to work for him and with him?

Sully:  Well, we always knew when Walt was around and gained a lot of knowledge just through osmosis and from what we heard and what we saw.  In the early days of Disneyland, our operating hours were from 9 to 9, and we worked 7 day shifts.  It was interesting because those foggy California nights would come aboard, and you couldn’t see across Main Street.  And Walt would be just down walking the park and seeing what was going on.  We’d be sitting around there, and there’d be nobody in the park hardly.  And so Walt would come down and sit on the boats and shoot the breeze with the guys and just see what our attitudes were and what our opinions were.  And he got to look at us.  We were kind of the reprobates of Disneyland.  We helped start – the guys on the Jungle Cruise – helped start the grooming standards down there because he didn’t like our haircuts and our beards and our moustaches (Lou laughs). 

But he was a neat guy.  He knew what he wanted and he talked to people.  It was interesting to watch him because he didn’t want people to do special things for him.  He would just want to walk the park.  If he was just up in his blue suit and his Smoke Tree Ranch tie, he was just out visiting the guests.  And if he had his blue pinstripe pants on and his old leather jacket and his boondockers and his straw hat, he was working.  He went over to Tom Sawyer Island and he’d go out on the painted desert, and look things over, and then go back to his designers and design something new. 

But it was interesting.  You always knew when he was around, though, because the guys in security would call in and a word would go out over the radio that there was a Code W – and that meant Walt was in the park.  Or a Code R, that meant Roy was in the park.  But the Studios would always call us and say “He’s on his way down.”  And about 35 to 40 minutes later he’d be arriving at the Harbor Gate, or at the West Street Gate.  And we always knew when he was around. 

And it was interesting because he would pop in and talk, and it was interesting because people would see him in his blue seat and they’d crowd around him for autographs and stuff like that.  And we’d walk up and say “Mr. Disney, this way, please.”  And then he’d correct us and say, “My name’s Walt, not Mr. Disney.  There’s only one Mister at Disneyland, and that’s Mr. Toad.”  And, later on, Mr. Lincoln, too.  But he was a good guy, and he would appreciate it, and we would walk him out the back and he’d come out another gate and go see the park someplace else. 

He’d wander the park at night.  I worked graveyards for eight months, graveyard security – I’m rambling a lot, but it just popped into my mind – I get this call over the radio, I’m sitting in the office by the dispatcher, and there was a Security Host out in the park who says “Hey, there’s some guy here says he’s Walt Disney.”  He’s a brand new guy.  This was, like, after midnight, like two o’clock in the morning.  And I said “Oh, oh.” So I jumped on my bike and I ran out there where he was, and, sure enough, it was Walt.  And Walt looked at me and said “Oh, God, Sully!  Thank God it’s you . . . this guy’s about to arrest me!”  (Laughter)  So, we walked him up to his apartment on Main Street up above the Fire Station and said Good Night. 

He’s a great guy.  He was a very warm individual person like that.

LM:  And everybody that I ever have spoken to that knew Walt described him exactly the same way.  He wasn’t what you might perceive as being your boss or an executive.  He was very warm, and he didn’t look down on anybody.  He cared about what everybody thought and their opinions and treated everybody with respect.

Sully:  It’s interesting you say that, because when he would come and see us and when it was slower and nothing was going on, he would say “What do you think about this?”  But he did that at the Studio, also.  There was one guy that he worked with, we heard, that was a janitor in the Animation Building.  And Walt would go up to him and say, “What do you think about this, Rufus?  What do you think about these?”  And he’d say, “Well, I was looking at some films, and some of the boys are doing pretty good work.”  It was funny, but he would talk to everybody and get opinions.

LM:  It’s wonderful.  Like you said, he knew what he was doing, and being able to draw from people that had the first hand experience in the parks or at the Studios . . .

Sully:  Not only that, but he would walk the park and he would stand and he would smoke a cigarette and lean on a trash can.  And people would walk up to him and say “Hi, Mr. Disney.”  And he’d sign their autographs and he’d say “Did you have a good time today?”  He’d strike up a conversation with them:  “Well, what can we do to make it better?  How can I make you happy?”  He’d talk to the guests and said, you know, how can we make it better for you?  Not for him, but for you.  And that was important.   Like he always said:  take care of the guests, they’ll take care of you.

LM:  You know, as you tell that story a smile was coming on my face, and I’m sure on listeners as well, because you can’t fathom seeing Walt Disney in the park and not only walking up to him and getting his autograph, but him saying “Well, what do YOU think?  Are you having a good time?  And what do you think about this?”    Walt obviously cared and took your opinion and it had an impact on what he did in the future.

Sully:  Absolutely, absolutely.

LM:  But after the World’s Fair in ’64 and ’65, you were once again relocated, and this time to Florida.  When and why did the company move you down there?

Sully:  Well, the word got out at the World’s Fair that something was happening on the East Coast.  Nobody knew what it was, and that was when Walt Disney World was called Project X.  And Bob Foster was down there buying properties.  And it was announced that we were going to do something in Florida, and I told the bosses I’d like to be one of the first guys down there.  “Nah,” he said, “you’ve got too much to learn.”

So I went back to Disneyland, and that was in ’65.  I got moved around a lot, and I got a lot of training.  And I got a lot of exposure, and it came one day that I was moved over from Manager of Fantasyland to Project Development.  And that’s where we started providing input into WDI – or at that time it was called WED, short for Walter Elias Disney – input for operating input into WED for Walt Disney World, and for the Magic Kingdom particularly.  And I got to work on the design and the layout of Fantasyland, because that was my area.  Unfortunately, we had it – Rolly Krump and I, we had it laid out beautifully – we  were starting to run out of money so we had to shrink things down some, so that’s how we got that little narrow passageway over there.  I doubt it was shrunk too much.

I was sent down here to do different jobs – my title was Senior Staff Assistant to the Vice President.  That meant I was a high priced gofer, so I did a little bit of everything.  I came down and set up the Post Office  down here for Walt Disney World and for Joe Pharr and the construction.  I came down and I went to work for the hotel company for a while, and we took over the Hilton in Southland on International Drive to get some exposure to the guests who were here and the purchasing and marketing of different stuff.  I came down and helped open up the Preview Center with Holscher and just, you know, varied and sundried things!  And I did the first legislators weekend; I did that for Jack Lindquist.  So I just did a lot of different stuff, and that was fun because I got to get exposed to a lot of different people and a lot of different things, and got to do a lot of different stuff.

LM:  Right, and you clearly had a hand in so many of the different elements that ended up becoming Walt Disney World, and, like you said, you mentioned Fantasyland.  I didn’t realize you had such a hand in the design and the layout of Fantasyland.

Sully:  Well, I designed the Main Gate, the Main Entrance of the park.  Not only of the park, but for the ticket sales.  And like the width of Main Street:  the Main Street is twelve feet wider than the one at Disneyland because we wanted to do bigger and better parades and wanted to have more sidewalk.  So we added a few feet here and a few feet there and made it easier for our guests to get up and down the street and still do our parades. 

Yeah, I got to do a lot of different stuff.  You see, I was on that three, four years, something like that.  Then when I was assigned to the hotel company and moved down here, then about six months later I was assigned to Security and Fire Prevention, and we hired the first 75 Security Hosts that we had and set up security.  And set up a liaison with the Fire Department and the local Sheriff’s Department, and just different stuff like that.  I had fun, I learned a lot.

LM:  I’ve gotta just go off on a tangent for just a little bit because, going back to when you first started with the company, you were nineteen or so, correct?

Sully:  I was nineteen years old.

LM:  Now, you’ve done all these different things, you have all these different roles in the company from Ticket Taker to everything else that you’ve described.  Was your background in anything that may have given you a leg up?  Or did you get, basically, all of your experience and training while you worked for the company?

Sully:  When I was in high school, my major was Architecture.  I worked at my Uncle’s chicken ranch for four years during high school and for a year after I got out of high school.   Finally, he said, “go get a real job.”  So I went to work in the aircraft industry.  And I did that for six, eight months, a year or something  like that.  You know, I was used to working outside and enjoying the sun.  I was in a building all day, and you worked from 7 to 3:30 and you got a break in the morning and one in the afternoon and lunch and if you wanted to go to the restroom you had to ask your boss.  I didn’t like that.

So, I found me another job. And I went to interview with Chuck Whalen, and he hired me.  And 39-and-a-half years later, I retired.

LM:  I’d say, clearly it worked out pretty well for you!  (Lou and Sully laugh).

Sully:  Yeah, we had a good time!  We worked hard, and played hard!

LM:  You stayed down in Florida, and you were there for, not only the opening of Walt Disney World and the Magic Kingdom, you were also there for the opening of Epcot, and, obviously, we were just celebrating the twenty-fifth anniversary a couple of weeks ago, so this is something that . . .

Sully:  Yeah, they invited me out for that, and I went out for that. 

I worked on EPCOT Center for four years prior to its opening, and, again, I was back providing operational input into the attractions and all that.  We started developing an inventory system for the show installation, and I was in charge of people also, and I had a couple guys working for me – they’d be promoted later on.  At the opening of EPCOT Center, I was in charge of all of the operations.  That was fun, and anything that happened or any of the other divisions that wanted to do something for EPCOT went through me. 

We went to WDI, or WED at the time, and we gave them this input.  The boss said, you know, it’s your baby and you’re gonna run it, so you make it right!  And so that’s why I got involved doing that.  We got to know a lot of good people in their divisions and we assigned each division, which there was nine of, somebody to give me the input, and we’d go together to WDI and we’d give them that kind of input.  I didn’t approve any of the designs.  You know, if I didn’t like it or it didn’t work with the operating areas, we would make some changes. 

I did that for four years, and I ran it for two years, and I went back to the Magic Kingdom and spent ten years in the Magic Kingdom.  Primarily running the Magic Kingdom and doing a lot of training.  And that was one of my main thrusts at the end was training our new people.

LM:  And that was back in 1987, right, you became Vice President of the Magic Kingdom?

Sully:  Yes.

LM:  One question:  I want to go back to the opening of Epcot real quick.

Sully:  OK.

LM:  I had heard that – and this is something that I had never seen before, I’ve never heard it –but that an interview was conducted during the opening ceremonies with Walt’s widow, Lillian, who normally did not give interviews.  But you were the person who made that happen, is that right?

Sully:  That’s correct.  I got thinking that the boss isn’t around, and that, you know, Mrs. Disney had a great influence on what took place in the company in the early days, how she’d keep Walt straight – just like all wives do to their husbands – and so, I says, I talked to Bob Allen, Jr. and said let’s do a film with Mrs. Disney.  And he said, you know, she’s never been interviewed; we don’t have any interviews with her.  I said, well, all she can say is no!  And so Diane was there, Lillian was there, and their oldest granddaughter was there.  And I said to Diane, “What would your mom think about doing an interview with us?”  And she says, “Well, what’s it for?”  And I said, “Well, for posterity, and we’d show it to our people so they’d get to know your mom!”  And she said let’s go ask.  So, she was in a golf cart touring before opening, and she said, “Sully!  Ask Mom!”  So, I said, “Mrs. Disney . . .” and I laid it on her, and she asked “Who is it for?”  And I says, “Well, I’m asking ya, and it’s for something I can show my people and my young guys and gals coming up!”  And she said, “It’s not for the press.”  And I says, “No, ma’am.  I can guarantee you that.”  And she says, “OK.”  And so we set it up, and we did it at 8:00 one morning in the gardens of the English Pavilion, which were gorgeous, and Mrs. Disney was there, Diane was there, and her oldest granddaughter, Joanna.  It was her oldest granddaughter, and she was a sweetheart.

And Bob Ollin conducted the interviews, and I finally found the tape.  I was talking to a guy at the NFFC Convention, and he says “well, I’ve got the tape.”  I says, “No.”  Now, this is going back, what, 25 years ago? 

LM:  Right.

Sully:  That we did that tape?  I had never seen it in 25 years.

LM:  No kidding?

Sully:  And he says, “Here it is.”  I went to a meeting the other night and he says here’s that tape that you’ve been looking for.  So I’ve got it on my desk, I’m going to review it and take a look at it.

LM:  Wow.

Sully:  That’s the only tape I know of that is of Mrs. Disney, and I’ve never seen it before.

LM:  I was going to say, that’s never been shown to the public, has it?

Sully:  Absolutely not.

LM:  Wow.  You want to talk about not only a wonderful opportunity to set up the interview, but to now have what may be the only tape in existence of it is amazing. 

Sully:  I think we sent one to Diane.  And probably Sharon, when she was alive.  As far as I know, that’s the only ones I know of.  We checked with Dave Smith in the Archives: he didn’t have one! 

LM:  And I assume you won’t be putting it up on eBay anytime soon . . .

Sully:  (Strong laughter.)  I don’t think so!

LM:  In addition to working at Disney . . .

Sully:  It’s a good idea . . .

LM:  I promise that you will sell one.  I would be the very first to purchase one.  But, anyway, you almost opened Disneyland for all intents and purposes, and the Magic Kingdom at Disney World and Epcot and the World’s Fair.  You also worked overseas as well for Paris and Tokyo.

Sully:  I did a lot of training for Jim for Tokyo.  I was asked to go, and I said I didn’t want to go.  Jim Cora, who used to work for me at Disneyland, he was promoted as the Vice President over there , for Disneyland International: that’s the outfit that handled all the overseas parks.  And Jim called me one day prior to the opening of Paris –during the construction of Paris – and he says, “Sully, come help me open this park.   You and I are the only ones who have ever opened a park before, and I don’t have enough help.”  I said, “Nah, Jim.  I don’t want to go over there. I’ve got a good job.”  I was Mayor of Disneyland; I wanted them to make me King, but they wouldn’t do that.  So, I had a good job; I was Vice President of the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World. I had a GREAT job.  And so, he says, “I’ll tell you what.  Come on over, spend a week, bring your wife, and just look at the project.”

LM:  Famous last words.

Sully:  I said “I’ll do that for you.”  I got to Paris, and it was dark, and dreary, and rainy.  And I said “It ain’t for us, Jackie.”  And she says, Naah.  But my wife would do any traveling that I asked her to do; because she never unpacked her bags. 

He was rotten, because we walked down the gate from between Hills Brothers and the Balloon Shop, and turned the corner in front of the Kodak Shop looking down Main Street and saw the castle down there at the other end.  It was absolutely gorgeous.  That’s the most beautiful castle we ever built, the one in Paris.  And I said, “Ahh, shtuff.”  (Lou and Sully laugh). 

I says, “You’re rotten, Cora. (pause)   I’ll be here.”

And so I called my boss, and we sat down and he said, “Well, I’ll go ahead and make sure you’ll be able to come back to the  …”  I said “He needs help.  I’m more than happy to go with him.”  And we figured out who would take my spot and run the park while I was gone. And I said “You know, I’m only a phone call away . . .”   And he says, “How long are you going to be gone.”  I said “Six, seven months.  Maybe eight.”  And, he said . . . Bob, being a great company guy, knew that we needed the help.  And he said OK.  And he told Nunis, who was my Big Boss, what we wanted to do, and he says OK.

So, on January 1st I jumped on the airplane and flew to Paris, and spent seven months in Paris opening that up.  That was an interesting experience.  It was cold, rainy, snowy, cold.  Ugh!  I’ve never been so cold in my life.  Come to find out Marne-la-Vallée, where the park is, is called the Refrigerator of Paris.  But, it’s a gorgeous park, and it’s beautifully done.  The designers did a magnificent job, went way overboard on it.  But, Hey!  That’s what Michael and Frank wanted, and they got it, and it’s absolutely gorgeous!  And I haven’t been over there in 15 years, so I hope it’s as good, if not better, than it was.

The landscaping . . . Luc Behar, who came over and studied under Katie Warner, who was my horticulturist at Walt Disney World.  Luc Barre is French-Canadian and was hired to be their landscaper over there.  So Luc came over and studied with us and worked with us for about six months and went over to Paris and did a magnificent job in landscaping that park.  And maintaining it, too.

LM:  And, like you said, I’ve heard as well all that; the castle just being absolutely magnificent and the park really coming into its own and being a very beautiful place to kind of walk through.  When you start talking about other parks that are beautiful and accomplishments that Disney has done with their parks, Tokyo comes to mind because everybody I know that has gone over to Tokyo has come back just awestruck at how beautiful Tokyo is.

Sully:  It’s beautiful because it’s got its own little personality.  And it’s got all these neat Japanese guys and gals walking around taking care of the place.  And Main Street is covered over, like an arcade.  Which gives it a different feel.   And the food is phenomenal over there.  And the merchandise . . . they’ve done an interesting thing with their merchandise.

Each one of the parks has its own personality, and they were designed that way.  And people say, you know, which park do you like the best?  You know, of course I love the Magic Kingdom.  And of course I love the Jungle Cruise at Disneyland.  I’m closer to Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World and Paris, so, you know. 

Let’s face it.  Walt touched Disneyland.  And that made it what it was, and what it is.

LM:  Very true.

I can only imagine, in the 38-year plus career that you had at the company, the amount of amazing stories you can – and probably can’t – tell.  If you had to pick one of the most memorable stories, or moments, or funny things that have happened to you in your career, what do you think that would be?

Sully:  Well, it’s very simple as far as I’m concerned.  There was a young lady working across from the Jungle Cruise, this cute little blonde.  And she was wearing a Hawaiian skirt.  And, well, let’s see . . . on the 11th of October we celebrated our 49th anniversary.  I married my wife out of Disneyland.  And it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. 

But there was a lot of stuff.  We flew Tinkerbell at Walt Disney World, which we’d always wanted to do but could never figure out how to do it.  But, me and Arnold Lindberg and Hank Danes, we bootlegged it and it worked!  (Laughter).

And just being affiliated with the opening in ’59, and being affiliated with the opening of Epcot Center and Walt Disney World—you put them all in one big basket.  I had a 39 year great run.  As far as I’m concerned, we had the Golden Years of the Disney Parks. 

There’s not one particular thing I can say that was the greatest thing that ever happened to me, except marrying my wife out of there.

LM:  I was going to say, you talk about living the dream . . . not only are you working at Disneyland, but you meet your wife there.  So, it doesn’t any better than that.

Sully:  Yeah, and four beautiful kids later! 

LM:  There you go!  And it gets even better, because you retire in 1993 and in 2005 you are inducted as a Disney Legend – I have to believe the highest honor the company can give to any of its cast members.

Now, more importantly, you hold the very, very rare distinction of having not one, but two windows on Main Street USA.  Tell me how you were able to swing that one, because you have Sully’s Safaris and Guide Service, where you are the chief guide, and the Windermere Fraternal Hall, which I’m going to ask you about.

Sully:  I think they were trying to fill up windows on Main Street when they did the first one, with the Windermere guys.  But I was really pleased when I retired when they gave me my own window, with Sully’s Safaris, because I’m a hunter and a fisherman and good stuff like that.  And I was honored that way with my own two windows on Main Street. 

I was always envious of the guys that were Disney Legends, but I respected those that were because that’s a pretty strong group:  with the Nine Old Men, with the John Hench’s, and all those good guys that really started the whole company! 

When Michael called me and said, “Sully, you’re going to be receiving a letter in the mail.  We want to honor you as being a Disney Legend.”  I just fell right through it.  My wife said “I’ve never seen you speechless.  And, when you read that letter, you were speechless.”

I didn’t give a big speech at my reception because I didn’t know what to say.  I was so awestruck with being made a Disney Legend.  It’s really a great honor, as far as I’m concerned.

LM:  And very well deserved, obviously.

Sully:  Thank you.

LM:  But I want to ask you about the other window that says “Windermere Fraternal Hall, Lodge Meetings every Friday” and the Charter Members are Bob Allen, Pete Crimmings, Dick Evans, Bill Hoelscher, Bob Mathieson, and you, Bill Sullivan.

Sully:  What happened to Jack Olson?

LM:  Oh, you’re right. I missed him.

Sully:  Those are just a bunch of fun loving guys who were just “Us.”  You know, they guys who have been with the company for a long time.  And we all lived in Windermere.  And I think they just filled a window.

LM:  I have tried researching to find out what the Windermere Fraternal Hall reference was, I said “Did these guys get together?  Did they meet up every Friday for a drink after work?”

Sully:  Well, a lot of us used to fish together and party together and work together.  Our families grew up together, and all that good stuff, so . . . They’re just a bunch of good guys.

LM:  Do you still live in Florida?  Do you get a chance to get out to the parks at all?

Sully:  I do go out to the parks occasionally, but it’s been quite a while.  You know, I don’t work there anymore.  I know if I go out there I’d get upset and start raising hell with somebody, and I don’t there anymore!  I agree with some of the things they do, and I disagree with some of the things they do.  But, it’s not my park anymore!  It belongs to Philip, and McFee, and Mike, so I don’t go out there.  But the parks are beautiful.

LM:  We actually met on the eve of Epcot’s 25th up in the Canada Pavilion.  Having  just celebrated the anniversary, and you having such close ties to the park, how do you think it compares today to what it was in 1982?

Sully:  Like I said . . . they run their parks the way they want to, I ran my parks the way I wanted to.

LM:  (Laughing) Very diplomatic answer!

Finally, Mr. Sullivan, my last question is what do you think – again, your history with the company is so storied and so remarkable and such a variety of different roles and positions that you had – what do you think you’re really most proud of, looking back?

Sully:  As part of the crew that I had, because people ask me today:  What do you miss out there?  You know, I miss my park, but I don’t miss the meetings, I don’t miss the politics, I don’t miss the infighting, and I miss my people.  Because I had 7,500 of the greatest employees that any guy could have!  And, you know I had almost 400 salaried people; a great bunch of people that worked hard, played hard, and they were just good people.  And they carried on the Disney tradition the way it should have been.   The way we trained them how to do it.  And I was very proud of them.

So, my people.

LM:  Everything that you’ve said is the same theme that resonates through everyone that I speak to, because the first thing they do is give credit to the people that worked with them and around them.  You talk about tradition, I guess that’s kind of carrying on the tradition of what Walt did: Walt was a genius in the fact that he knew to surround himself with people that were incredibly talented and people from whom he could pull even more talent than they knew they had.

Sully:  Walt had a philosophy, and Walt would say “We can design, build and create the greatest park in the world, but without the people they’re nothing.”  And that’s absolutely right. 

The people make the magic.  The people are the ones who take care of the guest.  When a kid falls down, they pick him up.  When a kid gets lost, they grab him, they pick him up and find their mama and daddy again.  The ushers that run the attractions and helps them.   It’s the people that make it work.

LM:  I whole-heartedly agree with you a hundred percent.  The cast members are what make Walt Disney World and everything that Disney does so truly magical.

Mr. Sullivan, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today.  It’s always an honor to have the opportunity to chat with somebody who, like I said, is truly a Disney Legend.  On behalf of myself and every other guest that continues to enjoy what you helped create, I want to say thank you very much.

Sully:  Thank you.  I appreciate the honor.

LM:  Take care.

Sully:  Thank you.

You can listen to the entire interview on The WDW Radio Show Disney Podcast #39